Casey's Tumblelog

marco:

[The Mac Pro] is, by far, the most amazingly fast, spacious, capable, and well-designed computer I’ve ever used.

I have no doubt that’s a nice machine, and I am certainly glad his all-too-familiar, all-too-painful wait is over.  That said, can one of the Fanbois explain to me what makes Apple computers any better than a PC set up by an intelligent user?  Admittedly, I haven’t used a Mac for more than about 10 minutes in as many years, but I’m failing to see what a Mac can bring me that I can’t accomplish for half the cost with an equivalent PC, and Ubuntu or the Linux distribution of your choice?

I’m not a gamer, really, and any games I would play (Frozen Bubble or OpenTTD) are running natively in Linux.  I use an admittedly ancient version of Quicken, but at least it runs in Wine flawlessly.  OpenOffice.org is enough to get me thru any of the Office documents I regularly encounter.  I use Firefox and Pidgin in any operating system, so no loss there.

I get (from what I can tell) just as bulletproof a machine, on great hardware (I use a ThinkPad), without the Apple tax, and with 90% of the eye candy thanks to Compiz Fusion.  What makes a Mac so much better?

The debate rages on!  :)

marco:

It’s badly designed, it looks tacky, quality control sucks, and it flakes out too often. I can’t even begin to count the hours I spent in high school and college screwing around with my (or my friends’) PC hardware, trying to get custom hardware combinations to work properly together. And just try to find a PC case that looks decent and is comfortable to work in.

I disagree. My ThinkPad is both pretty as well as extremely comfortable. However, in your defense, ThinkPads are generally more expensive than comparably equipped notebooks, and I shudder at the thought of what Lenovo will do to them over time.

The software world is much more divided. The quality of OS X, and its third-party software, absolutely blows away anything on Windows. The difference is huge.

Mac software follows design principles that you rarely see in Windows.

…

The attention to detail is particularly amazing. I recently tried a Windows Smartphone, and it was clear that nobody at Microsoft had ever actually used one of these. Apple hardware and software engineers will take great pains to ensure that a screw is centered or a form field positions the cursor to require the least user effort.

So much of this discussion was about Windows, but I’m not trying to defend Windows. I hate Windows. I was trying to compare [Apple Hardware + Apple Software + Any kind of user] to [ThinkPad + Ubuntu + Power User].

That said, in your defense, the software I use in Windows is the software I use in Ubuntu—Firefox, Pidgin, etc. But what makes Safari better than Firefox? What makes Adium better than Pidgin (especially since they’re both based on libpurpl)? I’m sure you can cite many applications that you use that are far better in OSX, but can you do the same for me?

Cost isn’t as ridiculous as many people assume. … It’s not that Apple machines are expensive — they just don’t have a low end.

I think that was extremely well put, and you make a very good point there.

You can put visual effect layers on top of Windows or Linux, but it’s just painting a turd. Instead of ordinary frustration and time-wasting, you get pretty frustration and time-wasting. (And that’s subjective — personally, I find Vista’s Aero and the Linux “eye candy” add-ons to be garish, ugly, tacky, and completely missing the point.)

Clearly you’ve never seen the “wobbly windows” effect. It’s booooootyful. ;)

All joking aside, what is so terrible about Ubuntu? I have basically the same dock, and I have a bar that’s always across the top. In fact, if I remember, I’ll post a screen shot of my desktop immediately after this.

Perhaps this is simply a “you had to be there” (or more accurately “you have to use it”) sort of thing?

We don’t use Macs and Mac software because of the eye candy. We use them because of the design. Design and eye candy are very different — design is a combination of how it looks, what it does (and doesn’t do), and how it works.

Use a Mac for 6 months, and you’ll wonder why you ever used anything else.

You’re probably right, but I’m scared to throw away years of investment of my time an energy in the PC platform.  Maybe momentum is the problem for me—I can’t break my habits.

To quote some other responses:

gschueler:

I continually wonder why people don’t think avoiding hassle later is not worth cost now. If you can pay $500 more now to never have to worry about: viruses, trojans, device drivers, Windows Activation, “safe mode”, etc. wouldn’t you do it? How much time have you wasted dealing with those things? Pay up, it’s worth it.

Performance? We should measure system “performance” in terms of user productivity. Ask yourself how much of your own performance is wasted when dealing with the crap that a WinPC throws at you. How many Gigaflops of mental energy do you waste maintaining your system, vs. really using your computer?

I agree. I spent a less money (comparatively) and, admittedly, a fair amount of time, to set up my Ubuntu installation. Since then, I’ve never had to worry about any of the things you have mentioned. My computer nearly never gets in my way.

Too often I think the Apple/PC debate turns into an OSX/Windows debate. I am not here to defend Windows as an operating system; I’m here to defend PCs as a hardware platform. I guess I’m preaching to the choir, given that Apples are nearly PCs now anyway. But I think my point is, I have yet to hear anyone give me a reason that OSX > Ubuntu.

And maybe that’s okay.

I want to like OSX. I want to like Apple. I feel like the only person who isn’t in on the secret—the benchwarmer while the other 5 players of your 6 person basketball team are on the court. I want to understand. I really do. But so far, it just doesn’t make sense.

Perhaps this point is what will really bring it home, if I ever do give Apple/OSX a shot:

tumblWah:

That is why apple’s market share is growing, good design is something that appeals to people across the spectrum of computer knowledge. Weather you are an 80 year old grandmother receiving email pictures of your grand children, or a computer programmer utilizing the computer to its fullest.

I’m can feel myself start to buckle under all the peer pressure.  I’m strongly considering buying my first Mac.

For all you fanboys, self-proclaimed and closet alike, what do you recommend?  While I probably could blow $2k+ on a MacBook Pro, I don’t want to.  I’d like to do something nice, but on the cheaper side.  I’m considering the $1300 MacBook that has the DVD burner.  On the plus side, my wife is a teacher so it seems that would get me $100 off.

Am I barking up the wrong tree?  Should I go Craigslist/Ebay?  Is that even a safe/good plan?

I definitely want an Intel-based laptop with whatever the latest and greatest cat is.  That aside, I expect nothing much from it.

I should note I’m not entirely committed to this yet, so if waiting a few months is a good plan, I’m all ears for that too.

Any constructive thoughts, anyone?

In researching options for my latest pipe-dream, I noticed something peculiar.  My wife’s education discount on a new MacBook is $100.  However, her “discount” for a refurbished MacBook?  An identical price tag, and two day slower shipping (1-3 days vs. 3-5 days).